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Asenath Bole Odaga is a teacher, writer, researcher and publisher who has probably influenced Kenyan children and oral literature students more than any one else in this East African nation. Drawing heavily from oral literature and at times blending contemporary issues with traditional African cultures, the 1938-born Odaga is worried that many African languages are threatened with extinction as many young people shun them. Consequently, she writes and publishes material in her vernacular, Dholuo, and English. Odaga trained at Kikuyu Teachers Training College and graduated with Bachelor of Arts and Master of Arts degrees from the University of Nairobi before working variously as a teacher, tutor, and research fellow before going into retirement: writing and publishing! She speaks to Ogova Ondego.

Asenath Bole Odaga addresses participants at the inaugural Lake Victoria Festival of the arts in Kisumu on the importance of oral literature

OO: Would you care to say how you got into writing and what you have written so far?

ABO: I started writing by default. I was teaching English but there weren’t any books at all on our background. I asked pupils to collect oral material from their parents and grandparents that I would compile in a book for them to read. The first book that came out was Thu Tinda: Stories from Kenya. ‘Thu Tinda’ is a phrase that is repeated at the end of every Luo oral narrative. It means ‘Let it be there. May I grow as tall as the tree behind my uncle’s home’.

Although Thu Tinda came out in 1980, I had started writing before this. My first book, Jande’s Ambition, was published in 1968. Another one, The Secret Of The Monkey Rock, had come out in 1965 while I was teaching at Nyakach. It was influenced by my experience during floods in Nyakach after I saw a monkey disappear under the rock on which I was standing. This book was for adolescents. Then I wrote Hare’s Blanket, and Kenyan Folktales, based on the Kenyan oral literature I had researched on as a research fellow at the University of Nairobi’s Institute of African Studies. It was at this time that I got interested in writing a dictionary of Dholuo.

OO: Where and when did your interest in storytelling begin?

ABO: My interest in storytelling, however, had begun when I was a little girl. There was no school in the immediate neighboourhood where I was born. I used to go to my grandmother for stories. She was a very good storyteller who told us how to tell stories and sing. That interest is still in me and I have written a lot for children, for adults and for schools. My book, The Endless Road is being used as a school textbook in Zambia. While Riamo, set in Nairobi, is written in English, Between the years is set in rural Nyanza. A Bridge in Time is set during the Europeans arrival in Kenya. The Shade Changes is set in Mombasa. Nyamgondho and other stories and Koko Nyamgumba are folktales in Dholuo. My latest children’s book is called Nyangi; it is about a family that loses its son during the annual Mombasa Agricultural Show. This is very popular with children. I have several books and I’m continuing to write. I have also written on women in development and the women’s movement in Kenya. I returned to Kisumu from Nairobi in 1992. I had been there for more than 10 years studying for my BA.

OO: But why did you leave Nairobi for Kisumu?

ABO: I decided I had done enough in Nairobi and wanted to devote myself to writing. I have done a lot since coming back: dramatized some of the Luo myths, like Simbi Nyaima, and Nyamgondho Wuod Mbare in play forms. I also have another play on corruption called Something for Nothing. The caller is a play on AIDS.

OO: And why did you choose to go into publishing?

ABO: I started publishing because non-indigenous publishers are here to make money. If I took my Dholuo dictionary to them, for example, I am sure they would have hesitated to publish it because it is unlikely to bring them money not being a school text book. It is only scholars like you and the Luos who could be interested in it. These publishers only want to do titles that sell to millions of school children and bring them lots of money. But that isn’t the way we are going to build our cultures. To do this, one must be committed and not put money above the interests of one’s people. We must collect and preserve our cultures.

OO: As a publisher, what would you say you have achieved so far?

ABO: I have since published the works of young men and women whose work would perhaps never have been published elsewhere. Unlike other countries where governments assist people to preserve their cultures, ours can’t think about us artists who have to struggle on our own. This is basically my background in writing and publishing.

OO: When exactly did you start publishing?

ABO: In November 1992.

OO: Who had published your earlier books?

ABO: Some Western publishers: Evans Brothers, Thomas Nelson Publishers, and others.

OO: What are the dominant themes in your books?

ABO: There are several themes in my writings. Africans leaders haven’t done enough for their people. We are poor because our leaders are not doing much to uplift us. I also call for justice and tackle corruption in my writing.

OO: How about your characters—how do you portray women?

ABO: I balance my characters. I keep some women as wicked while others are upright. I also make them stronger just like in real life. But this is not to glorify women but to give them their rightful place in society. My women Characters are very strong.

OO: What would you say are the joys of publishing?

ABO: The joy is in turning manuscripts into books. There’s book hunger in Kenya. The young people only see books in schools. When they get to rural homes there are no books, no libraries. It’s my dream that there’ll be several libraries in rural areas. Adding value to the body of knowledge is exciting.

OO: How do you raise funds for publishing?

ABO: It’s a problem and that’s why I haven’t published as many titles as I’d have wanted. I have about 100 – 110 titles in 20 years. This isn’t very much. We got a loan from a Swedish foundation that enabled us to do several books. It’s difficult to publish in Kenya.

OO: How many copies do you print per title?

ABO: It depends on whom we are targeting to read it. We do 3000 – 3500 for schools. But we have done 2000 of our Dholuo dictionary. We used to have our own printing machine that enable d us to print according to demand. We didn’t have to pay for printing. But we sold the machine as it was getting very old. We are now thinking of buying another one because we want to do quality work. People here don’t know how to publish books but jobbing and printing things like receipt books.

OO: How do you distribute your books?

ABO: We have a salesman who goes around the country selling our books to bookshops. The country is too big for one person, though. I think it is high time I marketed myself. We are now creating a website in the hope of selling our books online.

OO: Who edits your books?

ABO: I have editors but I have to change them often because they take too long but their work turns out not to be as good as expected. The problem is with English in this country. Especially among the younger generation. Nobody is training editors in Kenya. You only have people who have learnt how to edit while working with publishing houses.

OO: When did you start teaching and when did you quit the profession?

ABO: After training I was posted to Ng’iya shortly, then Ambira and Butere Girls’ schools.

OO: Were these secondary schools?

ABO: No, they were referred to as ‘Sector’ schools. This was during colonial days just before independence in 1963. After Butere I was asked to start a girls’ school at Nyakach. After three years here, I moved to Nairobi and started writing.

OO: Did you embark on this immediately after leaving Nyakach?

ABO: No, I worked with another organisation before I went to school. As a research fellow at the University of Nairobi, I also researched, conducted workshops and taught. It was while I was here that I embarked on this Dholuo oral literature dictionary.

OO: When you co-wrote Oral Literature for Schools with Kichamu Akivaga, were you still a research fellow?

ABO: Yes, but I think this other book; Yesterday’s Today, is better than Oral Literature for schools.

OO: Why are you emphasising the use of vernacular when the world speaks English?

ABO: But why haven’t the Japanese left their language? This is why I say I get very discouraged, as our leaders are not doing as much as they should. A language is a carrier of cultures and values. Even though we pay for English so dearly in school, we shouldn’t let go of our vernaculars. Otherwise, we’ll soon be slaves. We can retain and develop our languages and teach them to our children even as we use English in our careers. English is necessary for getting jobs, but our languages give us identity. The Japanese appear to be doing very well on this front. I was there for three weeks and realised that even the Japanese who have studied in English in the USA to the highest levels speak in their own languages. If you don’t understand him or her, they get someone else to interpret what they are saying. I think there is a connection between language and development. We in the Third World don’t seem to be making any headway in development largely because we are not using our indigenous languages to pass to people those terms and technologies that go together with development. Japan and India have done better because they use their mother tongues. But here when something comes up, the few people who read and write in English have to explain them to you but you don’t grasp it because they haven’t internalised them. It isn’t in their memory. Why is it that only we in Africa who have embraced former colonial masters’ languages are lagging behind in development? We just seem to be going round and round without developing anything of our own.

OO: Perhaps nothing illustrates what you’ve just said better than western trained, city-dwelling gender activists who claim to be empowering village women with whom they cannot communicate as they can’t easily translate their terminologies and concepts in vernacular or members of parliament who address their rural constituents in English.

ABO: This alienates them. If they were proficient in vernacular, they’d be understood and development would be faster. In our own community development centre here in Kisumu, we address women in Dholuo, not in English.

OO: What do you hope to do in future?

ABO: I plan to continue writing, as there is a lot to do. I want to pass this knowledge to younger people through teaching writing techniques. Meanwhile, I just want to write and publish.

OO: You discovered your writing rather late, while you were teaching, and not during your primary and secondary school days.

ABO: This was during colonial times when opportunities for blacks were limited. My teachers always told me I wrote very good compositions. They encouraged me. I enjoyed telling stories and I knew I’d one day write stories.

OO: Now that you are publishing, will you now take your works from foreign publishers in order to redo them?

ABO: No. Western publishers take their books to the whole world. Some of my books published in English are read by schools in Papua, New Guinea, West Indies, and Nigeria, among other countries of the world. I have a book in Dholuo and two in English with East African Educational Publishers: Oral Literature for Schools and Ogilo and the Hippo. It isn’t good to put all one’s eggs in one basket. That’s why I’d like other publishers to have my books.

OO: EAEP must be paying you well as Oral Literature for Schools is used as a set book.

ABO: Yes, it is selling very well. In fact, I want to revise it together with Yesterday’s Today to see if it can continue selling.

OO: Do you belong to any writers’ association?

ABO: Yes, Writers Association of Kenya (WAK), and Kenya Women Writers Foundation (Fem Art). I also used to be a member of International Board of Books for Young People (IBBY).

OO: Would you care to say something about your family?

ABO: We were many in my family. My parents were the first people to go to school on the plateau where I was born. They became Christians, married in church and brought us up in a Christian family. We were very happy. My father was a teacher and he taught us a lot including catechism. I have a sister, a brother and there were two deaths between me and my brother. My father toiled very hard to educate us, seven girls and two boys. We had equal education without discrimination. I was a lazy girl but he encouraged me to go to school. After this I did my Common Entry Examination and went to Ng’iya Girls after which I went to Alliance Girls’ School. My father sold his cows to send me to school. People questioned him for doing this for a girl who’d be married off. I am forever grateful to him. He lived till age 105 years and died in 2004. I still miss him very much. My mother had died two years earlier in 2002. She was about 100 years old. They were very good and supportive parents to whom we are eternally grateful that they sent us to school. My father was both hard working and disciplinarian. He ensured we ate well. He was a teacher while my mother was a housewife. We were so many she was always busy from dawn to dusk. I married someone already working as a teacher. He went for further studies and has worked as a human resource officer with Ministry of Labour. We have five children. My husband also writes books on personnel management. My children are grown up and the youngest married in 2005.

OO: What else would you like to say as we wind up this rather long interview?

ABO: I wish younger Kenyan men would be more focused and work harder. They should identify the areas they want to work in and work harder to build Kenya. Every morning I see men sitting, talking and whiling away the time. This bothers me so much as we have so much to do. Nobody is going to develop this country for us. The women are struggling but we need to build this country together. Now I understand Nyanza is the poorest province yet we have so many resources but we aren’t working hard enough. You can’t say you have nothing if you are able-bodied. This is the best asset. Many Kenyans still have land but are not developing it. The girls also don’t seem to be taking their education seriously. Africans were always serious and focused but changes taking place in the West are confusing us. We can’t go on waiting under a tree eating carrots for a non-coming Godot. We should instead emulate Mother Courage who is always busy, working and making money to feed her children.

Shaping literary opinion in Kenya